Arrived in Rome on the 13th. Settled into the B&B that Marlene S. had recommended--www.trecaravelle.com--She too was going to be staying there while my aunt Concetta and I were in Rome. I met the owners, Roberto and his wife Micaela, who were truly two of the most lovely and hospitable people. As soon as my aunt and I settled into our room, I called Portelli. I debated about writing this experience down, knowing that I would potentially put it into my website. Should I? Shouldn’t I? I thought, yes, I should. This was the experience. This was my experience with Alessandro Portelli. Before writing anything about the experience, I do want to say, grazie, thank you. I am grateful that in the end, I did accomplish what I had planned on accomplishing in Rome…meeting and interviewing Alessandro Portelli and sharing the experience of the Eternal city with my aunt! Now, here was my Portelli experience…
I began my correspondence with Alessandro Portelli on December 18, 2014. The correspondence continued for almost a year—10 months to be exact. When I had thought about applying for the sabbatical, I did some research that led me to Portelli’s blog. His experience, his philosophy and his words on the topic of oral history fit the purpose and parameters of my proposed topic. I also agreed with his perspective on the experience of conducting an oral history and the idea of connecting relationally with those being interviewed. I emailed him and he responded. The correspondence continued and led to the discussion on our meeting when in Rome. I was finally in Rome and I called him. No answer. Again, I called him. No answer. I emailed him. No response. Later, I called him again.
Now, he had told me that ‘these days were busy’ due to his most recent book on Bruce Springsteen. He was promoting it. He told me this after I had already purchased the tickets for Rome. I had emailed him prior to my purchase and explained that I wanted to be sure we were still going to meet, discussed my project again briefly and what my plan was in regards to interviewing him. He responded, ‘D’accordo’. ‘Ok, agreed’. So I bought the tickets, emailed him one more time before my depature to Rome and then I get the ‘these are busy days…but I am sure we will find a moment’ email.
So, now in Rome, I call him again and he finally answers his phone. ‘Can you call me back’, he says, ‘I am heading to the doctor’s’. I call him back and he tells me that tomorrow he will be in Trastevere (a Roman neighborhood) giving a talk on his recent Springsteen book- Portelli has recently taught a course at Princeton on Bruce Springsteen and American culture; he’s also a Springsteen fan--He says call me tomorrow morning around 10am and we can set up a time to meet. My aunt and I had an early start to the day, so we decided to walk over to the Trastevere area. It’s one of my favorite neighborhoods in Rome. I also figured, if Portelli was going to be in the neighborhood, it would make it easier on both of us in regards to meeting and conducting the interview. I called at 10am. A free operator’s message responded stating the phone line was not currently available. I could not leave a message. I called periodically for an hour. I sent a text. Nothing! I wish I could truly describe the feeling I felt. I was angry, disappointed, disgusted and felt ridiculous. I was truly looking forward to meeting this man and to learning something about a topic I am interested in and excited about. I came all the way to Rome for that purpose. I wanted to share that excitement with my students as well. I didn’t allow the experience to bring me down. I did not know exactly what happened. I did not know why he was not available, so I wasn’t going to let it bring me down. I was in Rome. I was in Rome with my aunt and we enjoyed the rest of the afternoon.
I decided to call one more time after spending several hours sight-seeing with my aunt. Portelli answered. I asked. I asked if he was still available to meet and I said to him if he couldn’t or did not want to meet, to please be direct and honest and tell me now. He did not explain why he was not available when I had called earlier that day. He didn’t have to explain anything to me. I did not expect an explanation. He did not apologize either and that I expected from someone I assumed was a decent person. Well, you know what they say about assuming…so, he told me he was giving another talk tomorrow evening in the San Lorenzo area. San Lorenzo is where the University of Rome Sapienza is located. It is where Portelli teaches as a professor emeritus. He was giving a talk about his book on Springsteen at a center called Il Nuovo Cinema Palazzo at piazza Sanniti at 6pm. He said to meet him at 5:45 so we can meet and chat before his talk. I told him I would take a taxi and once I arrived at piazza Sanniti I would call him. He agreed. I called. No answer. Luckily, I had met some university students that ran the center and I asked about Portelli. I asked if they could give me a heads up when he arrived. He had just walked up as I asked. A group that was gathered at the door surrounded him and began speaking with him. I inched my way into the group and made sure he saw me. He stared. I stared and waited. Finally, the group ended their conversation and I quickly introduced myself. He didn’t explain why he did not answer his phone. I did not expect an explanation. He didn’t apologize either. We chatted a bit about ourselves and briefly spoke again about my project. I interviewed him, thanked him for his time and walked back to the Vatican where nearby was the B&B. As I walked, I thought about this whole Portelli experience. I thought, I finally got the interview but, at that moment, I thought, do I want to use it? I did not really know this man. I do not know what personal issues he may be having. I knew he’d be busy but he knew that I was there to meet him and interview him for a sabbatical project about oral history. We had been periodically communicating this for almost a year. I did not know this man. I only knew this man from what I had read about him. I thought I knew this man from our brief correspondences that lasted 10 months. I did not know this man. I do not respect this man. I debated, do I write about this experience? Do I use his interview in my project? I felt and feel conflicted. Do I use an interview from a well-known Italian academic who is known in the ‘oral history’ world as an important contributor? Do I use an interview from a man that I don’t respect? A man who does not and did not respect my time, my interest, or my effort? If I do use it, what does that say about me? I thought about all of this as I walked back towards the Vatican. I stood in St. Peter’s Square and looked around. The night-lights created a beautiful and almost surreal setting as I looked around and heard, Yes! Yes, I will write about this experience. Yes, I will use his interview. I put a lot of effort and time to get this interview. Yes, I will write about the Portelli experience. Later, as I continued to reflect upon this experience, I came across three quotes that highlighted my thoughts…
The first quote is one from Abraham Lincoln. I thought its author to be fitting in many respects. Alessandro Portelli is a professor of American Culture at the University of Rome Sapienza, so he must be familiar with Abraham Lincoln.
Lincoln says that
“character is like a tree and reputation is like its shadow. The shadow is what we think of it: the tree is the real thing”.
My hope in meeting Portelli was based on his shadow. My experience exposed the tree.
A Bruce Springsteen quote, the second quote, highlights my internal debate on writing about my experience with Portelli.
“The proof is in the music. You gotta feel a deep commonality with whoever or whatever you’re writing about, or the song won’t be any good. And that’s where the song’s integrity comes from and that’s where its believability and..truth come from. “
I saw this as a fitting quote. Alessandro Portelli was and has been promoting his recent book on Springsteen. He’s a fan. Springsteen’s words here highlight my internal thoughts. This project is my song. I thought I felt a commonality about whom I would be using as a professional and academic voice in my song. If I did not write about my experience, then I would not be breathing integrity and truth into my music, into my song, into my sabbatical project, which is about a group of women that have shared their stories of survival, strength, true character and truth. Yes, I was going to use Portelli’s interview and yes, I was going to write my own truth about the experience of getting it.
The third and final quote that highlights my Portelli experience is a Latin saying:
"Verba movent, exempla trahunt"—Words move people, examples compel them. A more loose translation, a more colloquial translation is, actions speak louder than words.
Now I find this fitting for a number of reasons. Latin was Rome’s tongue. Portelli lives in Rome. It was the words of Portelli that moved me and his actions compelled me to write my truth. Ironically, I am working on an oral history. It’s all words. Words that move people yet these words that these women utter have a truth in them, have an action all their own. An action that saw them through tragedy, an action that exposed a directness, an honesty, a strength of living with very little and knowing the value of keeping your word, of being real, of being the tree amongst shadows.
Thank you Sandro for your words. I will use them lightly and encourage my students to be courteous when they interview, to be honest, and to remember that a person’s time and effort should be respected.
Piazza Sanniti, Rome, Italy
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